Is there a point to public education?

[petmoosie]

Beyond the goal of teaching the curriculum. Is there a set of actions that we want all children to have experienced? Are there values that we want to share?

Another blog was talking about overnight field trips (8th grade). Those are boondoggles from one point of view (particularly here). We have all the resources to provide everything locally with no need for an overnight trip.

On the other hand, an overnight trip provides a world of experiences that are unique to the experience of having an overnight trip with your classmates.

Comments

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

Of course the next question is "are the experiences common to an overnight trip at age 13 ones that are worth the hassle of producing?"

Probably the new frontiers of body-humor jokes aren't, but I don't remember what else I would have done on such a trip, aside from not getting enough sleep.

[petmoosie.livejournal.com]

Well, my classmates learned that they could go an entire weekend without teasing me. I consider that an incredibly important lesson for them to learn.

I was in a Catholic school, and our overnight trips were retreats. A retreat is designed for lots of prayer, silence and guided reflection, as well as Mass attendance.

There was an optional trip to France for French-studying students, but all other trips were confined to day-trips.

[petmoosie.livejournal.com]

I'm not 100% sure that the character-building and value-sharing goals would be reliably achieved on a purely secular trip. I know from discussion with my peers who did not have a religious education that individual students came away from these trips with character-building and value-sharing, but it's not clear that the other students in their groups did.

[petmoosie.livejournal.com]

I'm just wondering about homeschooling vs. education in a school. Both students learn the curricular items, but the values embedded in the model(s)?

In particular, I have a home-schooling rival. I can't seem to ignore her, I object to nearly everything she says, and try as I might I can't out-argue her. Why do I feel compelled to read her blog?!

[cozit.livejournal.com]

Part of the question is whether what they're doing on the trip is part of a learning experience... and whether at least a similar experience might be had by those students. The outdoor ed. field trip (varies from 6th -8th grade in HoCo for some reason) gives an outdoor experience that I might actually be able to say "most" kids in suburban and urban MD wouldn't ever have otherwise. Scouts is somewhat down from where it is, and the number of parents who would take their kids on camping trips or to an outdoor ropes course, hiking, etc isn't nearly as large as it would be good to see. They're intended to expose the kids not only to the idea of what nature is (in theory anyway... I've heard about the "cabins" at North Point ;-) ) but also the idea that there's both a benefit and a necessity in taking conservation seriously... and provide a bit of "leadership"/ "group forming" experience along the way as well.

As far as trips elsewhere go... it's been quite interesting (over the years) talking to kids from other parts of the country who are in DC visiting the Smithsonian (among other places)... some of whom have never been to more than a small city, if that, in the past.

Now, if it comes at great expense to the parents, or high stress fundraising, maybe not as good. My kid's school went from 3 days to 5 for their outdoor ed trip when my son was in 6th. The state had a new facility and there were funds to help reduce the cost of the trip to the point that 5 days was *very* do-able. This year? We're back down to 3 days for my daughter's trip. No biggie for me, or for her... she's done scouts, as well as a week long gymnastics camp in the country that provides *many* other traditional (and a few not-so) activities of a summer camp. There are others she knows who are already a little apprehensive, as it will be completely new to them, though they're excited, having heard tales from older kids.

BTW, speaking of non-school experiences... the boy is going up to PARF for one of their school days (I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I'll get to chaperone... I'm curious how good their day is and what it involves)... connected with learning about the Elizabethian period.

And down here... if you bring the little one to MDRF on a Sunday, make sure you bring her by "my perch by the Globe theater"... Most of those things I mentioned that I did this past weekend in my LJ are things that I'll set willing and interested visitors to doing as well (different level of difficulty and all, but :-) Not sure who is doing what on Saturdays, as I'm not there, but I've got lots of stuff now on Sundays.

(and be warned... you're going to get other comments from me... I'm playing "catch-up" still)

Figuring out which day(s) for MDRF

[petmoosie.livejournal.com]

Emily will (would) love for you to set her to doing. Experiential learning is very important for her. We saw that at Jamestown.

I will definitely have to stop by Mistress Mabel.

[petmoosie.livejournal.com]

I've been thinking about a few other things. Some families have their children in organized activities that will take them places. Scouts, Boys and Girls Clubs, Big Brother/Big Sister, Hebrew school, Religious Education and high-level organized sports, Forensics (the speech-giving, not the crime-investigating). All of these can provide similar experiences. Maybe we don't need to put (any of) the burden of character-building/community-building on the schools.

[cozit.livejournal.com]

Problem is that it's the kids who *aren't* in any of those programs who *really* need them... and no other way to fill that need. And the kids who have similar experiences elsewhere generally benefit from them as well.

Of course, there are all types. It's amazing the variety of responses middle and high school students let loose in the Museum of American History have. I've poked kids in my "teacher voice" to remind them that they're there for a reason, and I *heard* their teacher/chaperone give them an assignment... and other in the same group will be avidly looking at this and that and talking to each other *about what they're seeing* (yeah, it's always a bit of a shock to me too :-) Then there's the ones who always seem to be hanging out outside... and never seems to be an adult who shoos them back inside in the hope that they *might* pick up something from osmosis at least...

[petmoosie.livejournal.com]

Targeted charities, such as The Boys and Girls Club, Big Brother/Big Sister and The Fresh Air Fund (Bob Levey of the Washington Post, but I don't think it died when he retired) aim at the kids who really *need* these experiences. But I think that only a tiny bit of the need is met by them, either because they don't have enough volunteers/funds or because the parents who could benefit from them aren't aware of them (or don't trust them).

As a privileged parent with a higher education, I feel funny about saying that the schools *need* to provide this for other children. It feels like some variation of cultural imperialism or "noblisse oblige" (where the gracious lady makes her servants do good deeds for the peers of the servants--she wants good deeds to be done but won't dirty her hands to do them herself). I am pretty conflicted here.